Here is a sample of the posts. shall I contiue?

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I very much admire your namesake) thank you and gosh I hadn't thought about how many 'installments' or segments, just thought this might make an interesting discussion. Tayopa is one of my favorite lost mine legends, and I believe that one of our members here has in fact discovered it and now owns it - complete with all eighteen mines! (I am referring to Real de Tayopa, aka Don Jose', Tropical Tramp, Don Jose de la Mancha, Til Eulenspiegel, and possibly other aliases - a friend of a number of years now) I am sure that he could tell this history in detail, and accurately. I am hoping that he will join us here and help - especially with the mysterious early history.

The story goes that Tayopa was first discovered in 1603 - and we have very little records from that early date, but I did find that a Captain Diego Martinez de Hurdaide led a prospecting and 'evangelical' mission of soldiers and padres in what is today Sonora starting in 1601, and continued to 1603, when he went back to Mexico City and remained into the new year 1604. Could it be that the original Tayopa was discovered during this very expedition? I more than half suspect this to be the case.

Depending on which source you look at, Tayopa was first operated by Franciscans or by Jesuits; however in favor of Jesuits we can point out that the priests assigned to accompany Capt Hurdaide (whom was also "governor of Sinaloa" by appointment of the Viceroy) were all Jesuits. At San Felipe y Santiago de Sinaloa on the Rio Petatlan where Capt Hurdaide started on his 1601 expedition, the priest for the town and garrison was also Jesuit. So the evidence (so far) points to Jesuits being first on the scene. Also, from what I can find, it appears that the earliest Franciscan entrada into the area we are talking about (the hinterlands along the Sonora/Chihuahua border today) was 1640.

In 1600 five Jesuit missionaries Perez, Velasco, Villafane, Orobato and Mendez had founded eight missions with substantial churches and were at work in some thirteen towns on and near the rivers Sinaloa and Mocorito having also visited the tribes on the Rio Tamotehala and beyond but without founding as yet any mission there. According to Father Ribas (Jesuit missionary and historian) Hurdaide conquered no less than 20 nations of the heathens during his tenure that lasted 30 years.

According to the Tayopa Inventory document, the famous bells of Tayopa were cast in 1603 by Right Reverend Father Ignacio Maria de Retana. I have not been able to find a record of a Jesuit by the name Retana for 1603, but the name Retana is prominent among early colonial Spaniards, including a Captain Retana (famous for his Indian-fighting, and left his fortune to, you guessed it the Jesuits) plus even the best historians admit they don't have the names of many of the early missionaries - in fact it is more like the rule, only having the names of but few.

I have to sign out for the night, hopefully our amigo Don Jose, Dueno de Real y Minas de Tayopa will soon join us and help us out. Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
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Evening Oro, naturally, except where "X" is, that is your work. With out a doubt they are heavily guarded with traps, that is where you come in someone has to spring them. Bbk a bit later, still involved with book work with the 'secretaria de las Minas' on taxes etc.

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Tramp*

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good morning Oro de Tayopa: You posted -->How far off am I, Don Jose? I hope you can help set the record straight, thank you in advance

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You data is as correct as it is possible to do so with existing files. As can be seen you have Tayopa in many areas covered. Also Tayopa data shows up at Guaynopa & Guaynopita.

Latest information has it rumored to be at "Dios Padres" located west of Yecora at "La Trinidad:.

However the mere fact that it hasn't actually been found at any of those places, indicates that they can generally be ignored, All of those areas in general, have effectively easy access today, except for the Guaynopas.

The one that actually has an old map, is the one that is still considered as lost, is mine, the actual Tayopa of the legends.

As we go on, I will post actual pictures of the area, the site of the headquarters, the capilla, two maps, one of which has never been published before etc..

Yes ! Tayopa does exist, however there were three mining areas that have had the name of Tayopa under the Jesuits. the first was near the Guaynopo /Guaynopita Chihuahua area. This is till being looked for, It too has a large treasure.

Later they found a richer zone, so moved their center of operations to that spot, taking the name of Tayopa with them. This was at the present La Trinidad, Son. quite possibly the present Dios Padres. they called their former workings La Trinidad.

Then, even later, they found the Bonanza, the present Tayopa, Chihuahua, and moved the center of their mining operations there. This became the legendary Tayopa. They apparently called the last workings La Trinidad and renamed the first Tayopa - I have never found data on the new name for the Guaynopa / Guaynopita workings. ©@

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Tramp

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Hola amigo - thank you for your reply. Researching Tayopa is quite a confusing task, especially since the location(s) seem to be right on that dividing line between the Jesuits and Franciscans, and that each Order at one time or other claimed jurisdiction.

I had more info on Dios Padres, unfortunately it is on an old PC which is truly dead. About all I can recall is the name of the fellow who owned it (years ago) and haven't been in touch with him for some time now. One more question amigo - is there another Tayopa - a fourth? I thought you had mentioned yet another, which may date to a still later time (French intervention?) and I have lost that name too.

"Of all the things I have lost over the years, I miss my mind the most." -anon
Oroblanco

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good morning Sr Oro de Tayopa: The French connection is jumping the gun a bit. No, there was no 4th tayopa of the Tayopa series, but what you mentioned was Napoleons intention to utilize Tayopa to rebuild France's finances.

It appears that France had partially installed Maximilian in Mexico precisely for her mining possibilities, especially concentrating on Tayopa. Maximilian's personal adviser was a reported dour Belgium who just happened to be a mining Engr. He apparently was a representative of the Belgium King, whose daughter, Carlota, was marred to Maximilian.

It has been reported , but not confirmed yet, that there was a Jesuit connection, which produced data on Tayopa #3. I frankly do not know if the French mining engr's ever actually set foot on Tayopa, but they had drawn up plans for a Rail Road from Guaymas to the base of the Sierra Obscura, where Tayoa actually is.

The successful revolution in Mexico put a stop to that plan. I would just love to find the data regarding this French operation on Tayopa. It must still exist somewhere in Belgium, since they weren't as fanatical as the Jesuits in hiding and protecting their operations.

This data isn't critical in regards to finding Tayopa, since that has been accomplished, but to fill in on the many searches and history of Tayopa. It has been kept on hold 'just for us'. ©@

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Tramp*

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Morning again Sr Oro de Tayopa: Regarding the Dios Padres mine at La Trinidad, I contacted the American owner at that time, he lived in Texas. He was friendly until he learned that I had The Tayopa. It was later purchased by a Mexican group who also started small guided tours of the mines as possibly being Tayopa. Today the area is an ecological disaster, the water and grounds are contaminated with Cu ore residue. Broken and rusty mining equipment etc. I presume that the Mexican owners are starting to clean it up ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

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Hola amigo,

Somewhere I read that an American had approached either emperor Maximilian or Napoleon and had maps, to Tayopa, El Naranjal and another mine the name of which escapes me; <de Arco?> you have it right on about the idea of building a RR to Tayopa, and French troops were sent to the villages in the area of el Naranjal so Nap must have thought the info was good enough. As you said though, this is jumping the gun a wee bit - still haven't figured out how the mission of Our Lady of Guadelupe de Tayopa became a royal mining Real, but somehow things must have changed, legally. Did the king learn of the existence of the mines, and take them away from the Jesuits, or was it the Viceroy, or how did this happen? The Planchas de Plata deposit in AZ is said to have been discovered by a Yaqui, 'grabbed' by the Jesuits but soon Spaniards learned of the mine and Captain Anza intervened etc so I am wondering if something similar to this occurred with Tayopa? Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

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