Good point Hoke, but so far it has followed the pattern of previous cycles, suggesting the price and trend are more predictable than manipulation. The previous cycle patterns have nailed $1030 as the low for this cycle, so you hear that number $1030 as the low a lot among the gold pundits. Martin Armstrong says it might go below $1000, but depending how long it takes to get to its low will determine how long it takes to come back, Armstrong says the typical cycle predicts a turnaround in trend in the next month or so, but if it takes a long time to get to $1000 it could take as much as 5 years. So if the "manipulators" take us to the low sooner rather than later, we can thank them that it prevented gold firms from going out of business. As I've said, Armstrong, Micik and others agree that no manipulation can affect a trend for any length of time. These are not my words. Ike