fouremm,,,you are probably correct that they expired worthless, my memory is not what it used to be, but the point in all of this that I see is he had the opportunity to exercise those options when we were at $3 smackers,,,,but he didnt,,,,so he had no more idea about the future share price than ourselves,,,,thats good to know,,,,,now Norma and Shawn have been granted 75,000 each,,,,,hopefully the strike price is $5,,,,,,,,not bad pay for having to meeting every quarter over wine and chocolates,,,,,,,,,,,, :o)