Intersting debate but no recognition of ROF by Minister Gravelle.... yet

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The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Further debate? The member for Kenora-Rainy River.

Mr. Howard Hampton: I have about 12 minutes, so I want to cover a lot of ground.

First of all, let's be really clear what this legislation is about. No one is clamouring at the municipal boundary of Toronto to start prospecting for a mining operation in and around the greater Toronto area. Similarly, to my knowledge, no one is pounding at the gates of Windsor, Hamilton, London, Kingston or Ottawa. No one is out there in rural agricultural Ontario, to my knowledge, actively prospecting for the next gold mine. You might find isolated spots, localities in southern Ontario where someone is interested in doing some prospecting. But the reality is, this bill is all about what happens in northern Ontario in general and what happens north of the 51st parallel in particular.

Let's be clear: The hottest mining area in the world is no longer the Congo River basin or the Amazon River basin or some island in the central Pacific. The hottest mining area in the world is that part of Ontario which essentially lies north of Sioux Lookout, north of Kapuskasing, all the way up to the shores of Hudson Bay and James Bay. You have mining corporations from all over the world tripping over each other trying to get access. That's what this is about. This is really about what lies north of the 51st parallel, and to a certain extent what lies north of Lake of the Woods, north of Rainy Lake, north of Lake Superior and to a certain extent north of Kirkland Lake in Timmins-the hottest mining area in the world.

The big issue is this: There is hardly anyone living there but First Nations, and many of the mining operations that are being conducted, for example Muscle White or Attawapiskat, involve non-aboriginal people flying in on an airplane, maybe working there for two weeks, possibly three weeks in some cases, and then flying back out. There are no permanent non-aboriginal settlements of any size to speak of. We're really talking here about a part of Ontario that is overwhelmingly populated by First Nations people, and it's been that way since before any of us arrived in Canada-long before any of us arrived in Canada. So this is really about the rights and the rules and who benefits. Anything else that appears in the bill is really sort of public relations massaging. That's the issue.

Now, the First Nations who live north of the 51st parallel are not philosophically opposed to mining. They are not. Many believe that mining represents the last opportunity, or certainly the best opportunity, for many of these First Nations to actually rise above serious levels of unemployment, and the opportunity to address a number of very serious social and community issues. But those First Nations communities want to be assured that the rules, in fact, are going to be fair, and most of all, they want to be sure that they're going to be primarily involved in the decision-making. I don't think that's such an unreasonable thing.

To put it bluntly, they want to be assured that some bureaucrat sitting in an office in Toronto isn't going to draw circles on the map and say, "Well, here it is folks. This is the way it is." Let me tell you, this fear is very realistic. Sit down and look at some of the so-called parks that were established north of the 51st parallel in the 1970s and 1980s and what you'll find is that that's exactly how they were established. No one went to talk to the First Nations of Wapekeka before establishing a provincial park on their very doorstep. No one said to the First Nation of KI or Wapekeka: "What are your views? What do you think? What do you believe we should do?" No. A couple of downtown Toronto environmentalists and a couple of provincial bureaucrats sat down in an office and drew a circle on the map and said, "Here it is."

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Imagine if someone did that to the people of Toronto, if someone sitting in Washington or in London, England, said, "I think it's a good idea that we do thus and so in downtown Toronto, and thus and so in Mississauga," and issued the appropriate documentation so that it happens. I can just imagine what people in Toronto and Mississauga would say. You would probably have the next thing to riots in the streets. People would say, "This is colonialism," and it is. It would be colonialism. And it will be a repeat of colonialism if the end effect of this bill is that someone sitting in an office in Toronto says, "It shall be thus and so." What First Nations at KI believe, or what First Nations in Neskantaga or Fort Severn believe-"We'll consult about that, but the decision has been made."

First Nations really want five things. First of all, they want consultation and accommodation.

While this bill was being drafted, I had the opportunity during January and February to meet with a number of First Nation chiefs and councils. I went to Pikangikum; North Spirit Lake; Poplar Hill; Deer Lake; Keewaywin; Sandy Lake; Muskrat Dam; Round Lake; Sachigo Lake; Bearskin Lake; Big Trout Lake, otherwise known as Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug; Fort Severn; Angling Lake; Cat Lake; Lansdowne House; Summer Beaver; Wunnumin Lake; Kingfisher Lake; North Spirit Lake; and Webequie-20 First Nations. I asked the chiefs and councils and elders the same question: "Has anyone from the provincial government-the Ministry of Natural Resources, Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs, Ministry of Northern Development and Mines, Ministry of the Environment-come to your community, sat down with chief and council, sat down with the community in general and raised these issues and talked about proposed amendments and the issues?" Do you know what the answer was in every case? The answer was, "No; no one has come here to consult with us. No one has come here to talk to us. No one has come here to discuss with us any of these issues."

The most that happened is there were a couple of information meetings in Thunder Bay and a couple of information meetings in Sioux Lookout, and I think there was one information meeting in Red Lake. That's what they were. They weren't consultation, give-and-take, "What do you think? What do you believe? How do we address this issue?" They were essentially information meetings.

So if the minister is wondering why no one from Nishnawbe Aski Nation or Treaty 3 or the Robinson Superior Treaty organization stood up and said, "Oh, we think this is good legislation, and we approve of it," it's because, from right off the bat, First Nations felt that the first key ingredient-consultation and accommodation-didn't happen.

In fact, let me quote Sol Atlookan from the Matawa First Nations. The minister would know the Matawa First Nations because some of the Matawa First Nations are in his riding. Matawa was very specific. Chief Sol Atlookan, spokesman for Matawa First Nation, expressed deep concern that the government has not taken First Nations' input seriously, specifically regarding the fundamental issues of duty to consult and get advance consent. "Matawa First Nation ... members respectfully requested that consultation from industry should take place in the community and at the community level and that consent from the community has to be the major priority before any claim-staking takes place." However, they feel that their voices "have been shockingly ignored" and that they have wasted all their "time and resources with this process." So, right off the bat, First Nations are saying, "Hey, folks, there are some serious problems here."

Let me address the issue of prior informed consent. Grand Chief Stan Beardy of Nishnawbe Aski Nation was very clear on this. He said, "The government of Ontario did not allow enough time to conduct meaningful consultation with NAN First Nations in the development of this legislation.... We will continue to insist upon a mechanism through which NAN First Nations will be consulted and will have meaningful input into the decision-making process." Then he goes on to point out, again, rightfully so, that if this legislation is going to mean anything, it will have to enshrine the principles of prior informed consent before many First Nations in NAN territory will allow mining activity to take place, and that is not in this bill.

The third issue is environmental protection and land use planning, and I want to emphasize something again here. A couple of downtown Toronto environmentalists, a couple of people from the Ministry of the Environment and a couple of people from the Ministry of Natural Resources sitting in an office in downtown Toronto, saying, "This is how environmental protection will happen and this is how land use planning will happen": That is not going to pass the test. That, again, is simply colonialism repackaged in a new, flashy envelope, but it's not going to pass muster with First Nations. First Nations insist, rightfully so, that if something is going to happen in the place where they live and only they live, they should have a deciding role in environmental protection and land use planning.

Finally, let me just deal with the issue of revenue sharing-and I know the Speaker wants to wrap up. We're not talking here about a few million dollars. In Red Lake alone, the gold mining in Red Lake, probably in excess of $10 billion has been taken out of the ground. First Nations say, "Where did we benefit from this?" I could take members on a tour of Rosedale and Forest Hill and show you many mansions of people who benefited from that, but the First Nations who live in that area still continue to live in poverty. First Nations are not talking about $5 million here or $10 million there. They recognize that, particularly in the Ring of Fire, we're probably talking about tens upon tens upon tens of billions of dollars of wealth, and real revenue sharing will mean that First Nations will get a just share of that.

Now, Speaker, you're going to shut me down just as I was in full flight. But I would say to the government there are still a lot of problems-