I agree with your opinion: "I still believe if a real player in the semi world would take on the monetary load of developing Ignite tools, they would be rewarded with a very marketable product that could compete head to head with Arm for years." In fact I'll go a step further and say that it could easily surpass ARM capabilities. Remember that in '98/'99, PTSC's old PSC1000 "SHBoom" was the backbone for the fastest operating computer in the world. Darned if I can remember the name of the company (started with a "G" I belive, and was based in Ontario Canada, if I recall correctly). I looked at an old artical about the SHBoom, thinking I'd referenced this company and its accomplishment, but apparently that section was editted out. Perhaps Moxa or another early bird can remember. I don't believe the computer was running JAVA or Forth, but C++, but I can't recall specifically. Anyway, the point is made. The head of that company praised the SHBoom, and made it clear that they couldn't have accomplished without it. This was a small public company funded largely by grants; the point there being that they didn't have that much funding to enable this accomplishment. However, PTSC did have a tool kit available for the SHBoom. FWIW, SGE