jc, after a short amount of DD i've found that i wont be shorting V (at least for awhile).......the growth is too big and it looks like all the loss was due to litigation "provision".....a lot of risks out there for longs in regards to ongoing litigation and the credit crisis (jp morgan, bac, etc) make up 20% of thier business and theres too many rumors about these banks switching or dealing directly with consumers but my conclusion is that i'm staying away from it all together...