Regarding to Grant. We cannot dismiss it as lie. However, if it's repeated enough, it becomes truth.

I would not go and list pros and cons of CUU and in the cons column, i would say Elmer lies. He lied to Grant about FS date.

If it's not fact, why restate it?

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A fair point Calvin. repetition of opinion does have a tendency to become an apparent fact.

To put under cons that the CEO lies would not be fair. I can agree with that, and dont think I was trying to say that.

When two people say opposite things, one is lying. If that recording (if it exists) was ever produced we would know for sure. I just think Grant has enough credibility to not state with certainty he is the one lying? I have more respect for him that that. That doesn't mean I can assume Elmer lied either - for the same reasons (not the respect part, but the credibility part).